LuxRender v1.0RC1 release

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Re: LuxRender v1.0RC1 release

Postby ThorntonJ » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:39 pm

Lord Crc wrote:Jeez guys, chill out. It's summer, go out, have a nice bbq in the rain (or sun, if you have some).

There are no silver bullets when it comes to software development.

CUDA is powerful yes, but primarily because it's easier to write for the developers. The speed difference between CUDA and OpenCL is 90% artificial, and is the result of NVIDIA's business decisions.

However there's one thing I really take issue with:

was just trying to make a point that like it or not you guys seem not to have given any real consideration into


This is plain wrong.

[...] you gave me every excuse as to why cuda is bad, not why you DO chose OCL

We did consider the options available at the time. And to be honest, it was a pretty easy decision: CUDA works on one platform, OpenCL worked on three, and will work on more in the future... Intel Phi has OpenCL support for example, but no CUDA support.

Given that we're basically a handful of guys working spare-time only on this, we could not afford to pick both. At the time NVIDIA was improving their OpenCL implementation, and it was natural to expect them to bring it close to CUDA. Only lately have they reduced the OpenCL performance on consumer cards, relative to CUDA.

So yeah, it was easy to pick OpenCL: it would work on a lot of platforms, it's an open standard so we were not vendor locked, and at the time we made the decision NVIDIA was improving their OpenCL performance, not degrading it.

That said, if you find something else that suits your needs, use it! LuxRender was never meant to be everything to everyone.

Thank you. Im sorry again if my words had a harsh under tone to them. I was reading some comments from earlier posts by others that i was shocked to see how quickly others where turned down for a similar thought process. I took a defensive tone to start and i know that very rarely solves anything.

It is good to know WHY cuda has such a high benchmark. I really wasnt trying to jump out and scald you all for not doing it, but without a legitimate reason for why not, that kindof "cuz we dont want to" attitudue made me feal very much like that WAS the reason why not. The way you wrote this makes complete sense, Thank you.

Your right, i need to take a chill pill, its summer... i think if i had taken a breather it would have come out a lot differently. (pls note it was 4am here when i wrote those and i had gotten up at 7AM 3 hours sleep the night before... XD).

To those of you talking about my grammar...... yeah yeah, i hear you. i get reminded all the time. believe it or not i actually do have very good grammar, but i really am just that lazy without purpose. Throw me in a class room and ask me to wright an essay and i promise you it doesnt look like i wrote it.

Again, thanks for having the chill out attitude. I know with how harsh i came across that it is difficult for a lot of people and i really didnt intend to come across that way, it just kindof did XD.

Knowing that OCL has the potential to operate much faster than cuda provided the devs know what they are doing (which i believe you all do. like i said, the only reason i stuck with lux is because its end result stomps all over other free renderers), i think it would still be cool to know a little bit more about the OCL intigration into lux. i see this setting for SLG in my normal lux path settings. usually i just use bidirectional. periodically path if im not useing volume glass. Looking through the list i saw SLG path and SLG bidir. Neither seemed to work, but i know SLG is F'ing fast in my experience. I hope SLG path settings will become standard in lux. SLG is too primative on its own for my taste. I like the control lux offers me, so if i am able to use my normal lux shaders in an SLG rendering that would be awesome. Like i said im using an ATi6970 that i OC the hell out of. I likethe idea of Hybrid, but it just doesnt work. its not using my graphics card at all, regardless of the # of polys as some have brought up in the past with me. If cuda really isnt the best way to go, than i think it would be cool to see more OCL stuff integrated. SLG isnt much of a proof of concept anymore.

As far as the "not much though about cuda" comment, i was basing that purely on how quickly not just me, but everyone who brought it up was being shot down without reasons being given.

Again, thank you, im sorry to all about my attitude. reading back i do see it and i have no clue how i wrote it without noticing. Its nice to know why cuda isnt in use without just being told "it doesnt have a place in open source"(which is an opinion, not a fact).
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Re: LuxRender v1.0RC1 release

Postby Dade » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:00 pm

zeealpal wrote:
Lord Crc wrote:...chill out. It's summer, go out, have a nice bbq in the rain (or sun, if you have some).


If only, its winter for me, and freezing too :(


AHAH, very good point :lol: If you can take comfort, I had a MTB race on the Dolomites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolomites) last week and it was snowing :shock: (and the summer is usually damn hot in Italy).

Just for the record, CUDA is nearly out of top recently published 10 world supercomputer sites (http://www.top500.org), Intel Xeon Phi is gaining a lot of traction, IBM always had a strong presence.

In the mobile market, CUDA is not even on the radar, it is all about OpenGL ES and OpenCL. And we know that today world is driven by the mobile market.

If I was NVIDIA, I would be very concerned about the CUDA future.
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Re: LuxRender v1.0RC1 release

Postby jeanphi » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:57 pm

Dade wrote:If I was NVIDIA, I would be very concerned about the CUDA future.

I guess they are and that's why they try to advertise it as superior to OpenCL.

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Re: LuxRender v1.0RC1 release

Postby ThorntonJ » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:32 pm

Dade wrote:
zeealpal wrote:
Lord Crc wrote:...chill out. It's summer, go out, have a nice bbq in the rain (or sun, if you have some).


If only, its winter for me, and freezing too :(


AHAH, very good point :lol: If you can take comfort, I had a MTB race on the Dolomites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolomites) last week and it was snowing :shock: (and the summer is usually damn hot in Italy).

Just for the record, CUDA is nearly out of top recently published 10 world supercomputer sites (http://www.top500.org), Intel Xeon Phi is gaining a lot of traction, IBM always had a strong presence.

In the mobile market, CUDA is not even on the radar, it is all about OpenGL ES and OpenCL. And we know that today world is driven by the mobile market.

If I was NVIDIA, I would be very concerned about the CUDA future.

what does TARGA run on? NVidea has been pushing targa really hard in several exclusive android devices.
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Re: LuxRender v1.0RC1 release

Postby Dade » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:02 am

ThorntonJ wrote:what does TARGA run on? NVidea has been pushing targa really hard in several exclusive android devices.


Do you mean Tegra ? It isn't exactly a successful solution and the latest version doesn't support CUDA (!). BTW, the world #1 GPU producer is Qualcomm (not NVIDIA, nor AMD, nor Intel); just to give you an idea of how large/important is the mobile market nowadays.
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Re: LuxRender v1.0RC1 release

Postby ThorntonJ » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:40 am

Dade wrote:
ThorntonJ wrote:what does TARGA run on? NVidea has been pushing targa really hard in several exclusive android devices.


Do you mean Tegra ? It isn't exactly a successful solution and the latest version doesn't support CUDA (!). BTW, the world #1 GPU producer is Qualcomm (not NVIDIA, nor AMD, nor Intel); just to give you an idea of how large/important is the mobile market nowadays.

wow. i am impressed. i have to admit i was basing my statistic highly off the gaming comunity, which is evidently much smaller than i had anticipated. ATi fire pro is one of the mroe widely used for production 3d design (or atleast so it is advertized)...

I wasnt sure if cuda was used for terga or not. i know terga is a prety big deal with the PSPhone and things like that, and several android devices.
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